Dan Trachtenberg: Tips for Creating Cat-Themed Content

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In this special expert episode of Tails and Tassels, Gemma welcomes Dan Trachtenberg, producer and host of the Shelter Cats Podcast, which has surpassed an incredible 200,000 downloads in just two seasons! 🎉

As one of our expert guests, Dan dives into his journey from blogging about shelter cats to creating a successful podcast. He shares his experiences transitioning from a solo host to working with a co-host, the challenges he’s faced, and his top tips for creatives producing cat-themed content.

Dan also shares touching stories from his life as a proud cat dad and reflects on the mew-ments that inspire his work. This episode is perfect for anyone passionate about storytelling, podcasting, or making a difference for shelter cats.

📖 Resources & Links:

• Listen to Dan’s Podcast: Shelter Cats Podcast
•  Michelle Nielson's Children’s Book: The Farty Feline
•  Podcasting Guide: So You Want to Start a Podcast by Kristin Meinzer

🐾 Connect with Dan:

• Instagram: @sheltercatspodcast
•  TikTok: @sheltercatspodcast

💌 Connect with Us:

• Instagram: @tailsandtasselspod | @gemmasmithnyc
• Follow Catbaret on Instagram: @catbaretshow
• Email: TailsandTasselsPod@gmail.com

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Transcript

(00:00) Dan Trachtenberg
Everybody's got their own niche with cats, so don't be afraid to find your own voice or tell your own story about why you love cats.

Gemma Smith
Kitty cats and welcome back to another episode of Tails and Tassels, the show where you learn about the lives of burlesque nightlife performers, their craft, their cats, and how these two worlds intertwine. I'm your host, Gemma Smith, animal advocate by day and host of the Catbaret in New York City by night. This is episode 10 of the podcast. Meow. As promised, every five episodes, we bring on a special guest who's an expert in the world of cats.

Today, I'm thrilled to introduce an expert in creating cat-themed content, Dan Trachtenberg. Dan is the producer and host of Shelter Cats podcast, which has recently surpassed a massive milestone of 200,000 downloads in just two seasons. His podcast shares heartwarming stories about shelter cats and the incredible things they can do. And of course, he's also a proud cat dad.

Welcome, Dan. Thanks so much for being here.

 Dan Trachtenberg
I'm happy to be here. I've never done this before. Thank you for having me.

Gemma Smith
Yes, you're totally used to being the host of the podcast. Today, you're on the other side. So I'd love if you could share a bit about your background and the inspiration behind ShelterCats podcast. Sure. Yeah, it's nice. It's nice not having to do all the work for a change. So I grew up in Brooklyn near Coney Island.


 Dan Trachtenberg
So like not the hip part of Brooklyn. And I didn't have pets as a kid growing up, but my great uncle owned a lampshade store in Brooklyn, which to you younger people, you'd have to go buy a lampshade and you could have your lampshades repaired. Like a whole store for lampshades. It's kind of a wild thing to think about. And he had a colony of cats that lived in the store, like six or seven cats. So that was like my first exposure to cats.

was I would make excuses to go see my great uncle, not for him, but to see the cats in his store because he had a cat door in the back and he built shelters for them and he let them go in and out of the store and they pop out of the lampshades and everybody loved them and I spent time with them. So that was my first kind of, I think when I found that cats were my spirit animal and I didn't really have a

My parents were not big on having pets when I was a kid. I didn't have a cat until I was in my later 20s. And he was my first cat, Tyler. And he was really the inspiration for the podcast. When he passed in 2014, my first thought was to write a book about his life. I thought his life was interesting. I didn't know if anybody else would think it was interesting. So I started to write a book and then I started blogging.

Instead of writing the book, I just made it like a weekly blog and it started to do well. It started to get some followers and I kind of did that for a couple of years. And a year and a half ago, I had gotten more into podcasting, as a listener, from working from home and pandemic and having a lot more time at home, I listened to more podcasts and it kind of became addicted to following podcasts and listening to podcasts.

And I was having kind of writer's block with the blog. Like I couldn't really figure out where to go with it. So I read an article about Spotify having a podcast recording software was free. And I started reading into it and looking into it. I thought I could start a podcast.

Literally on my own for no cost. could use my phone. So my first idea was I'm just going to read the old blogs because the scripts are already there. You know, I'm not a professional, not a professional editor. I, I've kind of half taught myself to edit video, but not really. So I, set it up. It was pretty easy to do. You link all the services. I printed the block. I put it in front of me on a stand and I just started reading them as

dry and as humorless as possible. And I think my first episode I said, I don't care if you listen to this or not, I'm doing this for me. And I didn't think it would work out and I posted the first one. And it's like, holy crap, I got a few listeners, a few, so that you can comment, hey, this is really sweet. So I just started doing more and more and it kind of went from there and it, you know, we could talk about it, but I didn't think it would.

resonated at all. did very little research. I did very little prep. I just set it up. I linked to all the usual services like Apple and Google and Amazon. And I just literally read the blog and I took it from there. So I've learned on the go.

Gemma Smith
Thank you for sharing this background story because I have been a guest on your podcast, but I didn't know the inspiration and I love that it started with.

You had a cat, your first cat that was very special to you that passed away and you wanted to do something to memorialize him. And then how you worked for two years on your blog and that you thought of this idea using work that you already did. I'm all about that. I love that. Why reinvent the wheel if you have something to share, but you can share it in a different way. So I really like that your story is kind of like, Hey, I'm doing this for me. And it ended up.

being more than you even imagined. So with your podcast, I would love to know, as you were learning, what were some of the key strategies or platforms that ended up growing your audience? Or it sounds like after the fact you discovered how it was growing.

 Dan Trachtenberg
Kind of both. The thing that surprised me right away was it took off more on Spotify than any other platform.

And, I didn't really expect that. just assumed, you know, given where we are in the world, a lot more people have iPhones. just assumed people would be listening on their iPhones. The people I interviewed primarily had iPhones because when I recorded them, they were usually doing cat rescue while they were recording a podcast with me. So, or they're driving, they were driving to their next colony to feed.

So, you know, the early challenge was nobody wanted to do video and neither did I, to be honest. I was happy to do audio only. All my guests were, I look like crap. Do I have to do video? And none of them wanted to do video. I'm in the car. Is that okay? Can you hear me? And there were challenges with, you know, dead zones with, with cell signal and wifi. So the big thing that surprised me was people wanted to do video and it surprised me how

I guess more people found it on Spotify than the other platforms.

Gemma Smith
That is super interesting. And you're right for those listening, when if you're creating a podcast, you want to make sure that you have it distributed on all the different places where people listen to podcast. And it could surprise you. I as well would assume Apple podcast is the biggest one. But I mean, I do listen to some podcasts also on Spotify myself. So maybe I'm one of those listeners.

Now, I'm curious for other artists creating cat themed content. What advice would you give them for finding their specific audience?

 Dan Trachtenberg
It's actually a very interesting question. My. It's I have a co-host, Michelle, so. The show evolved over the. Over this between the first and second season, kind of like a TV show, sometimes they change their cast and the show gets, you know.

gets retooled. went from, I was very serious and I was very serious about the show's theme was originally how everyday cats from shelters could change your life. That was my, I had like a tagline, everyday cats that you could adopt in a shelter could change your life. You know, right now that cat is waiting in a shelter, go adopt them. So I was very serious and was very laser focused. And the people I interviewed were

all rescues, shelter owners and shelter directors. And then once I met my co-host, it evolved more into like, we still want you to adopt a shelter cat, but we kind of introduced more comedy into it. And Michelle and I, she's the author of the book, The Farty Feline, which is the true story about how her own cat has a gas problem whenever she's nervous around new people. And it's a children's book.

the farty feline. So once I heard of the book, I had to interview her. We got along so well, we just started joking more on the show. So the show evolved. So I guess to answer your question, don't be afraid to make it your own. And don't be afraid to tell your story. And like I read my blogs, and then Michelle and I did the interviews and we laughed a lot more and we made the people that we interviewed, we just

around and I didn't take it. It's not like I took it less seriously, I think, as the show moved on. So, and there are other shows that have these very unique, like Six Degrees of Cats and Community Cats podcast. Everybody's got their own niche with cats. So don't be afraid to find your own voice or tell your own story about why you love cats.

Gemma, how you and I found each other, with Catbaret, it never occurred to me that somebody would think to even do something like that. I can't dance, I can't burlesque, I look like I'm making wine when I dance or stamping out imaginary cigarettes. I couldn't be in your show because I'd ruin it. So my point is there's so many people that channel this love of cats into something cool and creative. You do it.

in a very cool way. Now you have a show and you have the cat parade, which is really awesome. Just find your own voice, tell your own story. Even if you're telling a story about your own cat and you've started there, which is kind of what happened with me. I told the story of my first cat and how, you know, he was my buddy for years and it evolved into, you know, now we're interviewing all sorts of people from all walks of life and you don't only have to interview rescues and shelters.

you know, God bless them for the hard work they do, but don't be afraid to vary it with just these people that from, I interviewed somebody who made an animated short about a cat in a kingdom and far, far away to a character actor who was one of the secretaries of Murphy Brown, who told the story of his acting career through the eyes of his cats to people who run cat cafes. And I love those people. So.

Don't be afraid to just find these kind of off the wall people that have awesome stories that are very interesting that just happen to have cats. I'm interviewing a tech YouTuber who's a friend of mine, but I've convinced him to adopt a cat. He's never had a cat before. I've just convinced him to adopt a cat because he'd listened to the show and you know, he's seen a lot of the stuff that I've been posting.

So the show is I'm going to talk to him on the show about how to adopt a cat. So just don't be afraid to make it weird or make it unique. Just find your own voice. There's room for everybody.

Gemma Smith
my gosh. I love this. I feel like you shared so many good nuggets. And number one, we're definitely, of course, linking Shelter Cats podcast in the show notes. And we've got to link this Farty Feline children's book. I can't wait to read it. What I love that you shared is don't be afraid.

to do your own thing and be authentic to yourself. Clearly, that is a recurring theme. Even other like burlesque performer guests, I've talked to them, their tips are do your thing, put your stamp on the way that you would do it. And you also shared something really interesting, how your process went from being a single co-host producer to then, or single host, and then adding a co-host, which I was actually reading a podcast book by Kristen Meinzer, how to start a podcast. And she talks about considering getting a co-host and how valuable that is. So I did want to ask you a follow-up question on that. You shared a bit how the dynamic of the show changed when you brought her on, a little more lighthearted, someone to joke with, to laugh with, a little more fun. And you may have mentioned this. Did you say also the workflow? Did you split up some producing tasks as well? She does the research.

 Dan Trachtenberg
My big weakness is I don't do much research on my guests. I'll do basic research. And this is, I can't say I recommend this to other people because more professional, way more professional, way more successful shows really dial down how much work they do in prep and they have scripts. This software we're using, you could have the script on the screen. And I did that with Steven a few weeks ago.

I told them this is the most professional episode we've ever recorded. I think of my questions on the air. I have the general questions in my head and I start with them and it kind of goes from there. So that's kind of how Michelle and I do the show. just, our standing rule is interrupt me whenever you want. I don't care if you have a question and it's just like a natural conversation. And I learn about the guests as I talk to them. It's just, it seems to work with me, but Michelle.

has questions, she does research, she'll alert me to things. By the way, you should really know that they've done this or, you know, they've rescued this number of cats or something to keep in mind. And it works out really well that way. And she's funny and she makes, and we make each other laugh. And it added such a massive dynamic to the show. The show shifted to a lot more comedy, a lot more fun. And I am

It just made a big difference. very glad it just kind of worked out that way.

Gemma Smith
my gosh, I'm so happy to hear that. And I can say that when you interviewed me, it was such a positive experience. I felt like we had such a nice natural conversation. feel like you're absolutely right to say that this is what works for you. And I also like how sometimes you read, like I was reading books about podcasting and listen to podcasting, but not everything everyone says is going to work for everybody and is the standard rule.

Like yes, you may read a book or see something that says you have to do all your research, but for you, you really enjoy discovering and learning about someone in real time. And I think that's valuable and I think that shows, and I love that you two really balance each other out. Now what I'd love to learn about for my own personal gain regarding social media, I'm curious, because I have a cat beret, Facebook and Instagram, I have my own personal TikTok, my own personal Instagram, tails and tassels Instagram.

You think it's important to also have a Tailes and Tassels like Facebook page as well?

 Dan Trachtenberg
Yeah. But I could tell you for our show, the Instagram and the TikTok drive more people to the show than the Facebook. The Facebook is more legacy for the blog. And to answer your question, it's important to have all of them. OK. Even a Twitter X, whatever it is now. OK. I think for

podcasts, I think the Instagram and the TikTok are maybe pay a little more attention to those than Facebook. Because I think people that follow podcasts and consume content, I love that term, consuming content, I think do it more on a visual medium like YouTube shorts and TikTok and Instagram, where you could break it up into little

bits like you do on TikTok like I do and YouTube and the stories on Instagram. think those type of people are more there than Facebook, but have the Facebook page, but I would say it's like last on the list. This is really good feedback. You've convinced me. Yeah. Have one. It's there. It's important to post it, but, and again, your show, your audience could be different, you know, because you, primarily are talking to more burlesque

performers, my assumption, I'm guessing, is they're probably more on Instagram than Facebook, and they're probably more on TikTok. And they're like, yeah, Tailes and Castles. What is this? I'm going to, it's a podcast. Hey, that's cool. Or even if they don't listen to your episode, they're going to get your content because you're going to put snippets on TikTok. So I think for this world and I think for your performers, I think the more visual TikTok and Instagram

are more important, but have Facebook just do it last.

Gemma Smith
Thank you so much. That makes sense. That totally makes sense. I love that you said for everyone listening, if you're creating content, you have to think about who are my listeners, who are my viewers, where are they hanging out on social media? And so that really resonated with me when you're thinking about where are these performers hanging out? And speaking of performers, artists are trying to

create content and monetize their work in some way. And I know that you started ShelterCats from a place of just your passion project for yourself, sharing the good word, doing the good work to share why cats are so amazing and how we can help them. But curious if you've explored monetizing ShelterCats or have any feedback on that.

 Dan Trachtenberg
So it is all monetized. The page is monetized, TikTok, YouTube.

Instagram, it's easy to set up. The Spotify, it's harder to monetize. You have to have a certain number of followers. We're at that point now, but when you're first starting out, have to have not just downloads, it's more you have to have a certain number of followers and listens. So there's a certain threshold. You can link Patreon, anybody who's doing anything like this.

have one. And the God's honest truth is I don't pay attention to my Patreon because I'm personally not looking to make money off off of this show. So it earns a little bit here and there. But I don't push it as much as I work in health care by day. Fun fact, I don't push the monetization as much as I probably should. But it's easy to set up. It's really how much

effort you want to put into monetizing your content. If you're looking to monetize your content, I strongly recommend YouTube first and foremost. know, make a YouTube version of your content and then make short of your content. Like I help a friend who has a YouTube channel. He does cruise ship reviews. So completely unrelated to cats. I've had them on.

just because he's a good friend and he has great stories because he used to work in the music industry. I've had to convince him to break his videos, which are 30, 40 minutes long into short. So if you're really looking to monetize, make sure you have YouTube length content and short related content and just have a regular schedule and be pretty diligent about it. The money is there. You just have to really work. Don't be discouraged if it takes a while.

to build your following up, but the money is there. It's easy to make. wish that was, I wish these opportunities were there when I was a kid. You know, if YouTube was there in the eighties, I'd be retired by now, you know, but it, but it wasn't, had, we had TV and a cassette player, but you know, to answer your question, the opportunities are there. just have to decide how much you want to work at, posting the content, building the following.

Getting people to like your content and follow it and spreading the word. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of effort. It's easy to get discouraged when you don't see any results and you're like, the hell with this. So it's really like you have to decide how much you want to really push to earn that money. It's there. You just have to kind of make that determination for yourself. I personally don't do as much as I should with it because it's more of a

The other old tagline for the show is I called it a labor of feline love. I do it more for the fun of it. I don't do it to really earn a living.

Gemma Smith
I knew from the beginning it was very clear that this is a labor of feline love for you. But it's great to know that you still offer some really encouraging advice regarding that there is money out there, that you can share your content, and that it just takes a bit of time.

How much time would you say you felt it took for your podcast to really take off and have maybe at least a hundred downloads an episode? To me, that feels like that would be a win.


 Dan Trachtenberg
To get a hundred took like a good month or two. Cause I was doing episodes every week for the first season. And then I went bi-weekly for the second season. So it took a good, I'd say month.

or two by the end of the second month, it was, you know, it's I think it was in the thousands in terms of followers. We did our first thousand followers, I think, in month two. And this is on Spotify. You know, it took it took a while again for me, the social media was built in because I just I just took the the preexisting blog social media and said, well, now it's a podcast.

So whatever you were gonna read, now you're gonna listen. Sorry, folks, sorry to burst your bubble. So it may be different for other people that are just starting and building the whole infrastructure of social media from the ground up. mean, like Spotify, there are other platforms to host your podcasts and they all have tools and tips on how to build your show. And it's basically, all of your content,

you know, make sure you word it correctly and have your social media and build your social media. You know, start with friends and have them share with other people. So it could be different for other people. by the second month, it's like, wait a minute, people are listening to this? Really? Me? My Brooklyn nasal? I always I hate my own voice. I I feel like I sound too nasal in Brooklyn. And I feel like I say, too much also.

So when I'm seeing these stats and it was starting to slowly rise and then it picked up as the first season went on, as we had more shelters on and more people on. And it wasn't just me talking. started after like five or six episodes, I really just started interviewing people and just telling fewer stories. That was when it really started to pick up because they're also sharing, hey, I was on this podcast. I got to talk about

chats for 45 minutes. So that helps as well.

Gemma Smith
It makes me happy to hear that. You know, the podcast initially exceeded your expectations. And as I've been like learning about podcasting, I'm learning that a lot of people are like, I don't have the right voice for podcasting this and that. But what matters is just being authentic. It goes back to like being authentic to who you are and that people want to hear authentic people and stories.

And clearly, people love listening to your podcast. And speaking about, you've interviewed so many interesting people in the animal world. Are there any other learnings, memorable moments, or interviews you'd like to share from speaking with so many cat folks out there?

 Dan Trachtenberg
I guess an early memory was having the director of the shelter, I got my first cat that inspired the blog, that inspired the podcast.

You know, having them on, getting them to tell the story and them messaging me, we were, we loved that so much. It was so awesome. We've never done something like that before. We didn't even, she didn't even realize that they were podcasts about cats at all. and that was the early research I did. said, is anybody else called shelter cats? And no, they weren't any, that's the biggest pleasant surprise is just people saying, Hey, I didn't realize that.

There's about cats out there. go, yeah, I'm not the only one. There's a bunch of them. You're the, you're the literally the third guest I've had on that has since started their own podcast after being on my show. And one of them said, you inspired me to start my own podcast. That's so nice. That was, that's also me. I don't know what I'm doing. I never feel like I know what I'm doing and they're starting their own.

because they had so much fun just talking with me on this show. So that's a really positive memory. Another one is we interviewed this family. They're called Rescue Advocates of Long Island. And they're like the model family. Like, I wish they could adopt me. They literally, they started a nonprofit where they raise money and donate money and

supplies to local cat and dog rescues in like Long Island, New York City. And they're just a family. I've since become friends with them. I've had thoughts of making the show a nonprofit to raise money as well. they sent me all the information about how to do it. And they have a holiday drive and they work with the local shelter where the kids make paintings of the dogs and the cats that are waiting in.

the shelter so when people this is a particular shelter in in Nassau County. So when people go home with their with the when the people adopt that dog or cat they go home with the painting that their kids made of that dog and cat so they go home with the gap with the pet and they go home with a painting of the pet which is really cool and this is just like I was just amazed at how much work they did and how into it the kids are and.

just as like a family unit and you don't hear too many feel-good family unit stories like that. I'm gonna have them on again for their holiday drive when the holidays come up and I follow their social media and they follow mine and we've since become friends. That's another, I'd say a season two standout. And having that

One of the secretaries from Murphy Brown, which was one of my favorite shows from way back when, having him on as well. He was in The Green Mile. He's a pretty steady, steady character actor. You've seen him. And he's in Star Trek. He was in other sci-fi shows. You'd probably recognize him. Just having him on was another. And I didn't realize he had a Southern. He's from Georgia. So he had this very kind of melodic Southern drawl voice.

So he made the story, the stories were interesting and his voice made it doubly interesting. You know, and he was on California time. So it was like 11 o'clock at night for me. You know, so I'm sitting there trying not to fall asleep. And he's like, and then the next day it was just, they're just, anybody starting a show, you'll, you'll build these memories yourself. You'll just, uh, just have fun with it. Just have fun, conversations with people.

and you'll build these things and you'll make friends, you'll lose a few friends, you'll make a few friends. It's just a blast.

Gemma Smith
my goodness, I can tell. I can tell that it's something that really enriches your life. And so many heartwarming stories. I'm all about that. I'm all about connecting with other people that have a love for cats, but their own take on it or in a different way. And our listeners now, they really got to listen not only to season one, but season two to hear some of these episodes.

Gemma Smith
Can you remind us the best place to follow you, your social media handle? I'll link it in the show notes as well, but just so our listeners can make sure they follow and listen.

Dan Trachtenberg
Sure. So Instagram and TikTok, it's ShelterCatsPodcast. Facebook, it's also, it's all, just search ShelterCatsPodcast everywhere. Facebook, TikTok, Instagram. YouTube is ShelterCats.

The episodes are there, but they're audio only. We are working on season three right now. was kind of, I was dragging my feet. was having writer's block. was, I had lost a little motivation. But we started using this Riverside software and we're incorporating video in season three with all our episodes. And it's kind of like reinvigorated my desire to do them.

So I kind of took a longer break than normal between seasons two and three, which was recommended to me by another, by the Six Degrees of Cass podcast. And Gemma, I highly recommend her as a guest. She's awesome. And she has a very unique take on it. She's already on my list. Amanda B. Yeah, because she's a musician. You she has a band too. She was episode 46 and

She gave me a lot of tips and we just, was awesome. was great. She's just a great guest and her show is so unique and off the wall. My first question was, don't, I can't figure your show out. Can you explain it to me? What the hell am I listening to? She's just great. So we have season three coming up pretty soon and it'll have video and, and,

It's all just search Shelter Cats podcast. It's all it's on all the platforms.

Gemma Smith
And something positive for you to leave us with because you're a cat dad, a cat lover. Can you share maybe a piece of advice or just a little bit about your own personal journey as a cat dad?

Dan Trachtenberg
Just adopt those shop. Everybody says that, but it's so true. Just bring so much joy to your life. Three of them are sleeping in the same room that I'm recording in right now. When I saw those cats at my uncle's store as a kid, I knew they were my spirit animal. I love dogs. I've had dogs, but cats are my spirit animal. Just adopt them, spoil them, love on them. Adopt the seniors, adopt the ones that are

you know, the unadoptable ones. be afraid to, my tailor, he's almost 16. I got him last year. You know, he's has some, has health issues now, but he's awesome, awesome, amazing cat. Don't be afraid to adopt the seniors and the unadoptable ones and just give them homes. And if you could help a rescue out, please do so. If you can foster.

I highly recommend fostering. suck at it because I keep adopting the ones that I foster. But if you have a harder heart than I am and can let them go to better homes, they need fosters more than anything else. The rescues never have enough space. And there's constantly hundreds of thousands of cats that need help and medical attention. So if you could foster one or two, if you have the space, do it if you could adopt.

senior or adopt the unadoptable, it. Just fill your house with cats is my pause positive. that what you say? piece of advice. You know, and just have fun with it. Go see cat parade. Oh, yes. Thank you. And by day I work in animal welfare, I work at a kitten nursery and yes, foster, we call it a foster fortune. So you can feel better about yourself as a foster.

It's a rewarding, it's an awesome experience. know, you're, you're, you're like the halfway house for that cat that learns to be a house cat. And then you, again, I, I have failed every single time, but if you can be better at it than I am and let them go and not end up with a bunch of them, like I do, know, you're, you're, helping that cat become a house cat and have a rewarding life in a home that

that cat deserves. And then you could do it again with the next cat, because there's always going to be the next cat that needs that love and that training and that work you do. So the biggest thing is if you could foster, just go find your shelter near you on social media. Half of their posts will be, we need fosters. We have no fosters, but please help, please help. So just reach out. And even if you've never done it before,

They'll help you, they'll give you the supplies you need, they'll stand behind you, they'll give you advice. It's the biggest need and it's the biggest, most rewarding experience. Well, thank you so much. It's clear that you love cats and you're doing so much good for the cats in your life and helping other people share their stories and raise more awareness to different causes. And that's a wrap. Thank you so much for being here today, Dan.

Thank you. And Gemma, thank you for what you do with Catbaret and good luck with your show. I know, what am I, episode 10? So there'll be a few before me, but I hope it goes well. I'm sure it will. I think you're a natural for this and just best of luck. You know, I'm happy to share. There's always room for another awesome show. So I hope it goes really, really well. Well, thank you so much. I'm so grateful. And that's a wrap for this episode of Tails and Tassels.

Gemma Smith
So if you have any questions, comments, or just want to say meow, feel free to send us an email at tailsandtosselspod at gmail.com. Thank you for listening, and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review our podcast. Also, join our community on Instagram at tailsandtosselspod for more updates and behind the scenes fun. See you next time, kitty cats.